Турецко-Израильский роман после Газы

[Prankster]

Мне лично вся эта акция кажется хорошо поставленной, но тем не менее глупой провокацией иницированной Турцией. Не стоило, конечно, Израилю так горячиться и убивать стольких «акционеров». Однако, их неоднократно предупреждали... Вот, получается, и напоролись...

[СолнЫчка]

есть категория родителей, таскающих своих детей везде с собой - на демонстрации, в прокуренные бары до поздней ночи, в поездки, довольно некомфортабельные и даже опасные... не знаю чем они думают.

каждый должен отвечать за себя в таких делахесли, конечно он идет не по приказу, как солдаты или менты

Заведомо зная что это опасно? :rolleyes:

Пранкстер, я уважаю твою т.з.

Но ты перегибаешь палку .... При любом печальном исходе самого гуманного мероприятия ответственность несет оганизатор, в особенности, когда он заведомо знает, что вероятность такого исхода максимально приближена к единице.

Есть там дети, нету там детей, как они там оказались и с какой целью ехали - уже не важно...

Ибо еще ДО начала, было предупреждение,что будет больно...

Организаторы СОЗНАТЕЛЬНО пошли на эту жертву ...

[Cepnyc]

любая протестная акция - провокация по сути. ты провоцируешь систему, расшатываешь ту ее часть, которая трбе не нравится. система ломается и меняется. правда есть риск погибнуть под обломками

Я не в этом смысле. А именно в смысле «турецкая провокация» с целью заручиться поддержкой арабского мира.

Зачем Турция лезет куда ей не надо? И почему именно сейчас турки не могут ни спать ни есть и беспокоятся о палестинцах?... Тоже мне миротворцы хреновые...

Им это еще из носа выйдет. Вот увидите...

[stateless]

Я абсолютно согласен, что позиция Израиля по Геноциду неправильна. Абсолютное большинство жителей Израиля, я уверен, никаких сомнений по поводу Геноцида не имеет.

боже упоси, я не трогаю население израеля и евреев, я говорю о государствах и организациях, я не нацист и уверен что люди то все одинаковые а вот государства разные.

Но на государственном уровне считалось, что отношения с одной из немногих не враждебных мусульманских стран лучше не портить. Все что я хочу сказать, это то что позиция Израиля не про- или анти- армянская, а как казалось руководителям Израиля, прагматичная.

я вашу мысль понял, и согласен с ней, но и вы поймите мою... я говорю о том что при тех же равных условиях Армения не стесняется называть вещи своими именами при том что Иран против этого... Я имею в виду что есть вещи которыми нельзя спекулировать, и объяснений для таких спекуляций не существует, особено для государства Израель, чея государство образующая нация тоже подверглась геноциду.

Так уж устроен мозг человека он всегда себя должен оправдывать в противном случии он встаёт на путь деструктивный... А оправдать спекуляцию жизнями полутра милиона мирных людей НЕ ПРЕДСТАВЛЯЕТСЯ ВОЗМОЖНЫ. А они ведь спекулируют, и активно противодействуют а не просто стоят в стороне и это тут ключевое. Они таким образом в сторонних глазах (как и в своих)обесценивают и своих жертв тоже...

[Ardani]

Prankster, голубя мира из тебя не выйдет, обеливателя Турции тоже. Корабль тебе не бар, куда может зайти любой. Ты что сомневаешься, что на эту "флотилию мира" был жёсткий отбор? Но учитывая, что таких тупых родителей, берущих своих детей в пекло кровавого конфликта среди вменяемых вряд ли найдётся, приходим к выводу, что их вполне возможно обманом (типа круиз на халяву) впихнули на корабль. Организаторы ДО "круиза" отлично знали куда лезут. Вот к ним и предьявляй в первую очередь (!) свои претензии.

[Meltonian]

Turkey and Israel a saga of (former) regional allies

Turkey and Israel: two traditional regional allies. Two countries with different backgrounds but also with many similarities that led to a long association with each other.

Two business partners whose bilateral trade volume increased under the Justice and Development Party (AKP) government by 145 percent and reached $4 billion.

Is the saga of a relatively happy coexistence of the only two functional democracies with secular political structures in the region over? Can this already very strained relationship survive after the Israeli raid on the Free Gaza Movement’s flotilla of six ships that led to the killing of Turkish citizens by Israeli naval commandos? How has it happened that by expressing its willingness to mediate in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict Turkey became a sort of party to the conflict? How far can Israel go with its far-fetched assertiveness? What will happen next?

These and others are the questions that puzzle many minds.

Turkey-Israel relations in retrospect

Turkey officially recognized the State of Israel in 1949, only one year after the Declaration of the Jewish State. It was the first Muslim majority country to do so. Since then there have been countless ups and downs in the relations between Turkey and Israel that, as stated elsewhere, can be roughly divided into four different periods.

The first period dates from 1949 to 1960 and is characterized by common foreign policy interests during the Cold War. It was the main driving force behind the formation and the quick development of the bilateral relations.

The second period -- from 1960 to 1990 -- was dominated by rising political tension and growing stagnation in military, economic and cultural fields. Lack of support from Western allies, especially the United States, for the Cyprus problem and economic difficulties following the oil crisis of 1973 led to a shift in Ankara’s foreign policy. During this period, Turkey developed its relations with the Non-Aligned Movement’s Muslim states to garner international support on the Cyprus problem as well as to meet its energy needs. The shift in Turkish foreign policy consequently influenced the existing content of Turkish-Israeli relations.

The third period, sometimes described as a “love affair,” started in early 1990s and lasted till 2002. During this period, problematic relations with Arab countries led Turkey into isolation in its region and at the same time opened new areas of cooperation with Israel. Perceiving Israel as a country sharing similar security-related concerns in the region, Turkish-Israeli relations improved and even evolved into a strategic partnership.

The fourth period, coinciding with the AKP’s term from 2002 onwards, is shaped by the unresolved Israeli-Palestinian conflict. As this issue also weighs heavily on Turkey’s domestic and foreign policy the factors that made both countries closer during the previous term have disappeared. But, the level of cooperation during the AKP term cannot be underestimated either.

Since the day the AKP leadership took office, around 50 ministry-level visits have taken place between Turkey and Israel. Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan visited Israel in 2005 and shook hands with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. Visits at the presidential level have taken place several times. During this period both governments signed several agreements in the political, economic and cultural areas, trade volume increased by almost 150 percent and military and intelligence cooperation continued.

A total breakdown?

Despite all this, one doesn’t need to be a very attentive observer to conclude that Turkish-Israeli relations have gone from good to bad. In fact, the nature of relations is rather precisely linked to developments in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

A brief look at past events shows the AKP’s consistency in its policy towards Israel. Relations became strained after the assassination of Hamas’ spiritual leader Sheikh Yassin in 2004 and consequently got back on the track following Israel’s withdrawal from Gaza in 2005 only to be derailed once more when the peace process was halted after the Hamas electoral victory in 2006. During Turkey’s sponsored mediation of talks between Israel and Syria, relations warmed up again. After Operation Cast Lead, when Syrian-Israeli talks broke down, we witnessed the battle of words between Erdoğan and President Shimon Peres in Davos.

Although Turkey is not the only country critical of Israeli policies in the Palestinian issue -- or perhaps just because of that -- Israel has become much more aggressive and inventive under its current government in fighting back the criticism. The “low sofa” diplomatic incident is a good example of this newly developed approach.

Not a battle of words anymore

Yet, till now it was still a battle of words. That is unfortunately no longer true. Israeli commandos launched a raid on six “Freedom Flotilla” civilian ships carrying up to 700 peace activists, including a Holocaust survivor, a Nobel Prize laureate, parliamentarians and journalists from 40 countries, and loaded with 10,000 tons of reconstruction, medical and educational supplies for Gaza. Commandos sabotaged the engines of five ships -- Greek, American and Turkish flagged -- and boarded and raided the Turkish-flagged Mavi Marmara sponsored by the Humanitarian Aid Foundation (İHH). Moreover, the operation was conducted in international waters and as a general rule a ship on the high seas is subject only to international law and the laws of the flag state.

The Freedom Flotilla’s ships were neither stateless nor were they fleeing Israeli territorial waters, a reason that could establish a legal basis for “hot pursuit” conducted under international law. They were not engaged in piracy or mutiny and no belligerent rights were applicable in that case, either. The action was not authorized by the United Nations; the ships were not massively polluting any coasts.

To put it simply, the operation was conducted having no grounds whatsoever in international law. Even the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflict at Sea -- that is, even though it is a non-binding document cited sometimes as a legal vindication of the commando raid -- stipulates in paragraph 8[ii] that “vessels engaged in humanitarian missions, including vessels carrying supplies indispensable to the survival of the civilian population, and vessels engaged in relief and rescue operations” are explicitly exempted from any capture.

Leaving aside the fact that even capture itself would have been against international law, a number of peace activists lost their lives;, Turkish citizens among them. Nevertheless, no official apology from Israeli officials has been extended to Turkey.

Illegal conduct, unusual reaction

This is a very unusual reaction in international relations. Fighting the accusations of being too aggressive with an even greater degree of hostility and hiding behind the twisted regulations of international law is not a very smart reaction, either. Things have gone too far. If the current course of events is not addressed, nobody can expect a bright future. If the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not dealt with, with final just and viable validity, we can expect a spillover effect of the hostilities all around the region. The Mavi Marmara tragedy is palpable evidence of that.

In this region, we are bound to live together in close proximity to each other. Here, everything is interrelated and interconnected. Hence, the zero problems with neighbors policy is not inevitably meant to be applicable only to immediate neighbors. It is true that in order to reach a full and successful outcome of this policy, nobody should feel isolated. Yet, it is also true that with ordering the conduct of a military operation on the Turkish-flagged ship -- in fact on Turkish soil -- the current Israeli government is imposing an isolationist policy on itself.

*http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/news-212039-centerturkey-and-israel-a-saga-of-former-regional-alliesbribyibrsylvia-tiryaki-can-yirikcenter.html*

[Meltonian]

Turkey launches legal proceedings against Israel

Turkey is not only demanding compensation from Israel in the international arena, but is also preparing to file compensation claims in the Turkish court system. On Thursday the Ankara Public Prosecutor Office's applied for the testimonies of those individuals wounded in the Israeli attack who had been brought back to Turkey on Wednesday night.

Turkey can also file claims under Article 77 of the Turkish Penal Code (TCK), which regulates crimes against humanity, but it is likely that for the time being there will only be compensation cases.

Hasan Köni, a professor of international law from Galatasaray University, told Today's Zaman that Turkey could initiate these cases according to the principles of diplomatic protection.

This means that a state can take diplomatic and other action against another state on behalf of its nationals whose rights and interests have been injured by the other state.

“Even if the relatives of the dead and wounded people give up their rights, the state can do this on their behalf,” he said.

When asked what might happen if Israel chooses not to acknowledge or obey the court’s verdict, Köni replied that there would be diplomatic consequences.

“Then Turkey can take the issue to the United Nations,” he said.

Meanwhile, the Ministry of Justice has set up a commission to research all the possible legal actions prescribed in national and international law which could be taken against Israel.

The commission also decided to send letters to its counterpart commissions and the European Union Parliament as well as the commissioner of the Council of Europe (EoC) regarding the violations of law and human rights by Israel during its lethal attack on the ships.

In the letter, it is pointed out that the Israeli attack took place in international waters and it is in violation of many other principles of international law: “To use force and violence against unarmed people including women, children and the elderly is a very serious violation of human rights and cannot be legitimize by any means,” the letter said.

It also noted that no apology or act could bring back the dead and that the rights to life, travel, freedom and security had been violated, as well as the right to communicate.

The commission also indicated in its letter that people had been subject to ill treatment during their detention.

The commission urged its counterparts to react against all these violations and also announced its decision to form a subcommittee to travel to Israel to investigate the events in question.

Meanwhile the UN Human Rights Council on Wednesday condemned Israel for its “outrageous attack” and established a fact-finding mission into possible violations of international law.

The resolution proposed by Islamic nations was adopted with 32 “yes” votes, nine abstentions and three “no” votes -- cast by the United States, Italy and the Netherlands.

Israel has refused to cooperate with previous investigations ordered by the Geneva-based council. This includes an investigation into the 2009 Gaza assault. The investigation was headed by former UN war crimes prosecutor Richard Goldstone and concluded that both the Israelis and Hamas, which controls Gaza, committed war crimes.

*http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/news-212073-turkey-launches-legal-proceedings-against-israel.html*

[Meltonian]

'Turkey Jews fear flotilla backlash will turn into anti-Semitism'

Turkish newspaper editor says, however, that Turkish PM Erdogan has repeatedly declared that he was against anti-Semitism.

A Turkish newspaper editor told the European Jewish Press on Wednesday that Turkey's Jewish community feared that the backlash over Israel's interception of aid ships headed for Gaza earlier this week would provoke anti-Semitism in the Muslim-majority nation.

On Monday, Israeli navy commandos clashed with activists aboard a Turkish ship carrying aid to the blockaded Gaza. The clash resulted in the deaths of 9 activists as well as dozens of injuries, among activists and soldiers alike.

The editor of the Istanbul-based weekly Salom, Ivo Molinas, said Wednesday that "we are definitely worried, because [the anger in Turkey] can turn very easily to anti-Semitism."

"The rhetoric used by the Prime Minister [Recep Tayyip Erdogan] has been very radical," added Molinas, part of the 20,000-member Jewish community residing in Turkey.

Erdogan accused Israel at the Turkish parliament on Tuesday of a "bloody massacre" and declared "now Israel has shown to all the world how well it knows how to kill."

Turkey has recalled its ambassador and Erdogan, charging Israel with "state terrorism", has called for those responsible for the deaths to be punished.

Other activists, who have given harrowing accounts of their ordeal on the high seas, arrived in Istanbul on Thursday to a hero's welcome by thousands of cheering supporters.

"But the Prime Minister also said yesterday [Tuesday] that he was against anti-Semitism. He says it during each crisis but he repeated it yesterday," said Molinas, whose newspaper has a circulation of around 5,000.

"Both he and the leaders of the opposition have said that all of this will have no effect on the Jews of Turkey," he added.

About 26,000 Jews live in Turkey, mostly in Istanbul, where some 20 synagogues are active, according to the European Jewish Press.

*http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/turkey-jews-fear-flotilla-backlash-will-turn-into-anti-semitism-1.294032*

[Meltonian]

от мухи сидевшей на потолке...

For the first time in years, senior members of Americas military led by Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Admiral Mike Mullen and head of the army’s Central Command, General Petraeus, have stepped up to derail an Israeli plan to push phony intelligence on the US as they did with Iraq in order to support an invasion of Iran, an attack seen by top American military leaders as both unwarranted and a potential disaster. Israel’s answer was to go to congress and retired officers, bags of cash in hand, to garner support, newspaper ads and finally this act of desparation, an attempt to find conspirators inside the US military willing to commit treason.

Faced with the withdrawal of US forces from Iraq and Secretary Gates proposed downsizing of the military, the clock is ticking on Israel’s plan to push America into war against Iran while adequate forces for an attack, although logistically prohibitive, politically destabilizing and politically suicidal for America.

Additionally, current regulatory legislation before congress, promoted by President Obama, is designed to break the back of Israel’s control of American banking and their stranglehold on the American economy. Of the largest threats to America’s economic survival, “dual citizens,” those with both Israeli and American passports head companies most threatened by new regulations meant to prevent future “pump and dump” attacks on the US economy. If Obama is left alive, the ability to run games like the sub-prime mortgage fraud will end, and with it, billions stolen from middle class Americans.

Israel has no extradition.

[Pilot]

Президент Турции запретил прощать Израиль

РИА "Новости" | 15:30:02

Президент Турции Абдуллах Гюль заявил, что его страна никогда не простит Израилю убийство своих граждан, которые погибли при атаке на "флотилию свободы".

"Турция ни за что не простит совершенное нападение. Отношения Турции с Израилем больше никогда не будут, как прежде", - заявил турецкий лидер в эфире показало местного телевидения. "Израиль совершил одну из самых грубых ошибок в своей истории, о цене которой очень пожалеет в дальнейшем", - добавил он.

Турецко-израильские отношения испортились после того, как 31 мая израильский флот перехватил международный гуманитарный конвой "флотилия свободы". В результате атаки погибли девять человек, включая восемь граждан Турции, 19 были ранены, несколько числятся пропавшими без вести.

Турецкий парламент накануне потребовал от правительства пересмотреть отношения с Израилем. Похороны погибших турок прошли в четверг в Стамбуле и вылились в массовые антиизраильские протесты.

ссылка

[Pilot]

Израиль не пропустит судно правозащитников к сектору Газа

ТЕЛЬ-АВИВ, 4 июня — РИА Новости. Израиль не пропустит к сектору Газа ирландское судно «Рэчел Корри», идущее с группой правозащитников и гуманитарным грузом на борту, сообщил новостной интернет-ресурс «Уай-нет» со ссылкой на главу израильского правительства Биньямина Нетаньяху.

Судно не успело присоединиться к «Флотилии свободы», перехваченной в понедельник ВМС Израиля, и, по заявлениям организаторов плавания, собирается в ближайшие дни предпринять самостоятельную попытку прорыва морской блокады палестинского анклава.

«Мы не позволим судам причаливать к Газе. Ни сейчас, ни позже. Мы собираемся направить судно “Рэчел Корри” в порт (израильского города) Ашдода и передать гражданские грузы в сектор Газа после проверок на безопасность», — цитирует издание Нетаньяху, выступившего на закрытом совещании семи ключевых министров.

Премьер также распорядился проявить при перехвате «осторожность и вежливость», чтобы не навредить пассажирам и экипажу судна, сообщило агентство «Ассошиэйтед Пресс» со ссылкой на анонимный источник в окружении Нетаньяху.

далее по ссылке

[Meltonian]

[Cepnyc]

Israel has no extradition.

Мелтонян, откуда это?

[Злодиюка]

евреям уже некуда деваться

они вынуждены также жёстко обращаться со всеми остальными судами, в противном случае будут вынуждены признать, что действовали "не совсем верно".

и тем не менее молодцы - начхали на всех и гнут свою линию. хотя понятно, что "яйцами" их снабжают более крупные игроки

пару дней назад показали кадры, снятые камерами на самом корабле

интересные кадры..

так называемые турецкие миротворцы (фу бля) тренировались.. учились как оказывать сопротивление.

[Prankster]

Prankster, голубя мира из тебя не выйдет, обеливателя Турции тоже. Корабль тебе не бар, куда может зайти любой. Ты что сомневаешься, что на эту "флотилию мира" был жёсткий отбор? Но учитывая, что таких тупых родителей, берущих своих детей в пекло кровавого конфликта среди вменяемых вряд ли найдётся, приходим к выводу, что их вполне возможно обманом (типа круиз на халяву) впихнули на корабль. Организаторы ДО "круиза" отлично знали куда лезут. Вот к ним и предьявляй в первую очередь (!) свои претензии.