Турецко-Израильский роман после Газы

[Sari Galin]

Turkish PM Erdoğan storms out of heated Mideast debate

Turkey's Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan stormed out of a debate on the Middle East at the World Economic Forum on Thursday, saying he might never return to the annual gathering of the rich and powerful.

Israel's President Shimon Peres had launched a fiery defense of his country's assault on Gaza over the past month and, with a raised voice and pointed finger, questioned what Erdogan would do if rockets were fired at Istanbul every night.

As the debate, which also included United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon and Arab League chief Amr Moussa, was ending, Erdogan was cut short as he tried to respond.

"I don't think I will come back to Davos because you don't let me speak," the Turkish prime minister said, as he stood up and walked out of the conference hall in the Swiss ski resort.

"The president spoke for only 25 minutes. I have only spoken for half of that."

Turkey's state-run Anatolian news agency quoted Erdogan as saying to Peres: "When it comes to killing you know very well how to kill. I know very well how you killed children on the beaches."

In a hastily-called news conference, Erdogan later explained that he had been upset with both the moderation of the debate and Peres' manner.

"My reaction was directed at the moderator. I think that if we have moderation in this way, we won't really get out of Davos what we all come here to get out of Davos, and it would cast a shadow over efforts to reach peace," Erdogan said.

"President Peres was speaking to the prime minister of Turkey -- I am not just some leader of some group or tribe, so he should have addressed me accordingly," he told reporters.

<http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=165508>

[Sari Galin]

Turkish PM leaves stage during debate with Peres over Gaza

By HERB KEINON AND AP

Israeli-Turkish relations took a dramatic turn for the worse in Davos Thursday night when Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan stormed red-faced off the stage at the World Economic Forum after sparring with President Shimon Peres over the fighting in Gaza.

Erdogan was angry over being cut off by a panel moderator after listening to an impassioned monologue by Peres defending Operation Cast Lead.

Peres's defense was prompted by harsh criticism leveled at Israel not only by Erdogan, but also by the two other panelists, Arab League head Amr Moussa and UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon.

"You are killing people," Erdogan declared to Peres.

However, a finger-pointing Peres told Erdogan that he would have done the same if rockets had been hitting Istanbul.

"Do you understand the meaning of a situation where hundreds of rockets are falling a day on women and children who cannot sleep quietly, who need to sleep in shelters? What is the matter with you? You don't understand, and I am not prepared for lies."

Peres's comments were met by hearty applause, which apparently irritated the Turkish prime minister.

Erdogan asked the moderator, Washington Post columnist David Ignatius, to let him speak once more.

"Only a minute," Ignatius replied.

Speaking in Turkish, Erdogan said, "I remember two former prime ministers in your country who said they felt very happy when they were able to enter Palestine on tanks. I find it very sad that people applaud what you said. There have been many people killed. And I think that it is very wrong and it's not humanitarian."

"We can't start the debate again. We just don't have time," Ignatius said.

"Please let me finish," Erdogan said.

However, Ignatius responded, "We really do need to get people to dinner."

The Turkish premier then said, "Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. I don't think I will come back to Davos after this."

The confrontation saw Peres and Erdogan raise their voices - highly unusual at the elite gathering of corporate and world leaders, which is usually marked by learned consensus-seeking and polite dialogue.

The packed audience at the Erdogan and Peres session, which included US President Barack Obama's close adviser Valerie Jarrett, appeared stunned.

Afterward, forum founder Klaus Schwab huddled with Erdogan in a corner of the Congress Center.

"I have known Shimon Peres for many years and I also know Erdogan. I have never seen Shimon Peres so passionate as he was today. I think he felt Israel was being attacked by so many in the international community. He felt isolated," said former Norwegian prime minister Kjell Magne Bondevik.

"I was very sad that Erdogan left. This was an expression of how difficult this situation is," he added.

Moussa, the former Egyptian foreign minister, said Erdogan's actions were understandable.

"Mr. Erdogan said what he wanted to say, and then he left. That's all. He was right," Moussa said.

Of Israel, he said, "They don't listen."

Erdogan brushed past reporters outside the hall. His wife appeared upset.

"All Peres said was a lie. It was unacceptable," she said, eyes glistening.

The unpleasant incident came at a meeting that both Israeli and Turkish diplomatic officials thought could help improve relations between the two countries - relations that have soured considerably due to Erdogan's extremely harsh criticism since the start of Operation Cast Lead.

"Erdogan's actions in Davos show that he doesn't want to miss an opportunity to further harm Turkish-Israeli relations," sources in Jerusalem said in response to the incident. The sources said that Erdogan's behavior on the Davos stage obviously would not help Turkey's attempts to be seen in Europe as a rational and constructive actor on the international stage.

"Israel's strategic relationship with Turkey is important to us, but it is no less important to Turkey," the official said. "Erdogan is harming his own interests."

The official said that Israel was growing increasingly "tired" of Erdogan's tirades, and was unlikely to make any more efforts to "chase after the Turks."

The official dismissed as no longer valid the argument that Erdogan's diatribes - he has called for Israel to be barred from the UN and said its actions were inhuman and would bring it to self-destruction - were the result of domestic considerations, and that he was playing to his strong Islamic base before the Turkish municipal elections in March.

The incident came even as Turkish Foreign Minister Ali Babacan appeared over the last couple of days to be tempering Turkish rhetoric and taking a more conciliatory approach. On Wednesday he called on Hamas to abandon violence.

The Foreign Ministry had no response to the incident, an apparent indication that it did not want to exacerbate the situation.

<http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1233050211059&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull>

[Жорик Вартанов]

Игнатиусу надо было ему в морду дать , козел трогает всех. :hammer:

[Sari Galin]

Этот Сёма Перский (так его звали до замужества) старый гёт.

Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres has said that claims of an Armenian Genocide are "meaningless," according to the April 10th edition of the Turkish Daily News (TDN). The newspaper quoted him as saying that:

"We reject attempts to create a similarity between the Holocaust and the Armenian allegations. Nothing similar to the Holocaust occurred. It is a tragedy what the Armenians went through but not a genocide."

In response to inquiries from Asbarez Daily Newspaper to the Israeli Consulate in Los Angeles, the Israeli Foreign Ministry confirmed that Peres had in fact rejected any comparisons between the two of the major Genocides of the 20th Century. The Israeli Consulate released the following statement:

"This issue [of the Armenian Genocide] should be dealt with by historians and not politicians. We do not support the comparison of the Armenian tragedies to the Jewish Holocaust. Israel will not take a historical and political stance on the issue."

6/25/01

[Armenia_Forever]

Как Реджеп Эрдоган поссорился с Шимоном Пересом

На заседании Всемирного экономического форума в Давосе произошел инцидент, последствия которого непременно отдадутся в раскладе сил на Ближнем Востоке. После выступления президента Израиля Шимона Переса, посвятившего большую часть своей речи защите позиции Израиля в конфликте в секторе Газа, слова попросил премьер-министр Турции Реджеп Тайип Эрдоган. Председательствующий предупредил его, что по регламенту на ответное слово предусмотрена всего минута. Начав с того, что он сожалеет о том, что присутствующие в зале аплодировали Пересу, Эрдоган напомнил присутствующим, что в Газе было убито много мирных жителей, в том числе и детей. Реплику Эрдогана прервал Перес: «Если бы Стамбул обстреливали восемь лет, то Турция вряд ли смолчала бы». Эрдоган ответить не успел, так как председательствующий сообщил, что его время истекло, и наступило время ужинать.

«Спасибо, - ответил Эрдоган. – Я закончил. Больше я в Давос никогда не приеду», - сказал премьер Турции и вышел из зала заседаний. Согласно некоторым израильским агентствам, проходя мимо президента Израиля, Эрдоган бросил ему в лицо: «Вы – убийцы!» Затем уже, в интервью французским журналистам, Эрдоган назвал действия Израиля «брутальными». «Что может оправдать брутальные действия израильской армии? Ни у какого государства нет права на подобные акции».

Данный антиизраильский демарш Турции далеко не первый за последнее время. Напомним, что 16 января сего года, выступая на съезде правящей в Турции Партии развития и справедливости (ПРС), Эрдоган потребовал исключения Израиля из ООН. «Никто из представителей этой страны не должен переступать порога ООН до тех пор, пока их правительство не прекратит бойню в секторе Газы», - заявил тогда премьер-министр Турции. А уже в Давосе, на Всемирном экономическом форуме, Эрдоган заявил, что США должны пересмотреть, применительно к Ближнему Востоку, в частности Хамас и Хизболлах, само понятие «терроризм».

Что же изменилось в Турции, еще до недавнего времени считавшейся главным союзником и партнером Израиля в исламском мире? На том же съезде ПСР, к примеру, Эрдоган заявил, что «Израиль уничтожает мирных жителей Газы под видом борьбы с фундаменталистами, и оскорбляет весь мир, подвергнув атаке здание миссии ООН». Можно было бы постараться понять, если бы подобные заявления делал премьер Дании или, скажем, Исландии. Но Турция, повинная в геноциде армян, уже десятки лет уничтожающая курдские поселения как в своем государстве, так и на территории Ирака?! И эта самая Турция сегодня вдруг стала лидером кампании по осуждению Израиля.

Напомним также, что еще в прошлом году Турция выполняла (или искусно имитировала) роль посредника в возобновлении переговоров между Сирией и Израилем. С самого начала операции ЦАХАЛа в Газе Турция объявила, что она «обижена неуважением» Израиля к посреднической миссии Анкары, и отказывается от миротворческих усилий. Однако в Давосе Эрдоган заявил, что Турция «обладает неоспоримыми преимуществами в вопросах посредничества в регионе». «Преимущество» Турции Эрдоган объяснил весьма своеобразно: «Мы здесь единственные, кто разговаривает на языке Ближнего Востока».

Как представляется, однако, Турция не владеет языком не только Ближнего Востока. Напомним, что на состоявшемся на днях в Стамбуле заседании по обсуждению «турецкой» Платформы стабильности и развития на Кавказе Азербайджан и Грузия заявили о невозможности участия в работе «Платформы» до тех пор, пока не будут улажены их территориальные проблемы. Теперь можно уверенно сказать, что от посредничества Турции откажется и Израиль. В этой стране уже начался туристический бойкот Турции, и десятки тысяч человек, уже приобретших билеты в Турции, отказались от поездки туда. Конечно, нет никаких сомнений: после того, как улягутся страсти вокруг Газы, Турция и Израиль вновь обретут в друг друге бесценного партнера и стратегического союзника, и все же…

Что заставило руководство Турции выступить против своего, пожалуй, единственного стратегического союзника и партнера в регионе? Да еще с остротой, ничуть не уступающей риторике представителей Ирана или Пакистана.

Ответ на эти вопросы следует искать исключительно во внутриполитической ситуации в Турции. В самом деле, на протяжении десятилетий Турция выступала в роли надежного стратегического партнера Израиля. В свою очередь Израиль обоснованно воспринимал Турцию в качестве государства, отвлекающего на себя часть сил арабских государств. По сути, обе стороны достаточно плодотворно следовали известному принципу: враг моего врага – мой друг. При этом население Турция отнюдь не симпатизировало Израилю, а население Израиля, соответственно, Турции. Однако симпатии в расчет, как известно, не берутся, подобное взаимодействие устраивало оба правительства. Как во внешней политике, так и во внутренней.

Во внешней политике Турция получала возможность дистанцироваться от «инкриминируемого» ей панисламизма, а во внутренней – в зависимости от правящей идеологии – следовать заветам Ататюрка, ярого приверженца пантюркизма и светского образа жизни, или проповедовать исламизм. В свою очередь дружба с Турцией давала Израилю возможность позиционировать себя в качестве государства, борющегося не с исламом, как религией, а исключительно с исламским терроризмом. Подобная позиция до поры до времени устраивала обе стороны, однако операция «Литой свинец» смешала карты заинтересованных во взаимной дружбе государств.

Вернее, не сама операция, а время ее претворения. В самом деле, «Литой свинец» - далеко не первая израильская «антитеррористическая» операция. Так, проходившая на территории Ливана недавняя война Израиля с Хизболлах привела к гораздо большему количеству жертв среди мирного населения, однако Турция никоим образом не выказала своего возмущения. При этом необходимо указать, что и тогда и сейчас у власти в Турции находился тандем Эрдоган-Гюль. С тем же олимпийским спокойствием взирала Турция и на предыдущие арабо-израильские войны. Откуда же столь откровенный взрыв негодования?

Проблема, как уже упоминалось, кроется во внутренней политике Турции, в которой исламисты, во главе с ПРС, сошлись в бескомпромиссной борьбе с приверженцами пантюркизма, более рекламируемыми в качестве последователей идеологии секуляризированной, «светской» Турции. Набирающее обороты дело «Эргенекон» - лишь верхушка айсберга этой борьбы. Накал борьбы столь высок, что лидеры проигравшей стороны рискуют лишиться не только власти или должностей, но и собственно жизни. В недавней истории Турции такое уже было, когда свергнувшие исламистскую власть военные повесили на площади в Анкаре президента и премьер-министра страны.

Сегодня правящая исламистская партия находится в ситуации наступающей стороны. По всей Турции проходят аресты бывших высокопоставленных военных, журналистов, юристов, всех тех, кто является приверженцем «светской» Турции. При этом власть пока остерегается проводить аресты среди действующих высокопоставленных военных, подавляющее большинство которых является безусловными сторонниками арестованных. Однако правящий тандем Турции вряд ли может рассчитывать на то, что военная элита ограничится лишь заявлениями протеста. Армия во властной внутренней иерархии Турции – исключительно влиятельная и мощная структура, и аресты нескольких сотен ее приверженцев, тем более, людей в отставке, никак не влияет на ее возможности. С большой долей вероятности можно сказать, что Турцию ждут серьезнейшие внутренние потрясения: решающее сражение между исламистами и пантюркистами. От исхода этого сражения зависит как среднесрочное будущее Турции, так и, в прямом смысле, судьба лидеров противоборствующих сторон.

Ни Абдулле Гюлю, ни Реджепу Эрдогану, сегодня не до Израиля и арабов. Они заняты привлечением в лагерь своих сторонников широких масс турецкого общества, созданием мощной социальной базы, способной защитить власть от армии. А «широкие массы» Турции, как известно, болеют за своих единоверцев. Отсюда и вызывающий эпатаж в поведении Эрдогана. Какой уж тут Израиль, какие палестинские дети, какая, к черту, внешняя политика, если на кон поставлена собственная жизнь?

Левон МЕЛИК-ШАХНАЗАРЯН

http://voskanapat.info/index.php?name=news&op=view&id=120

[Sari Galin]

Thousands welcome Turkish PM in Istanbul on his return from Davos

Thousands of people gathered in Istanbul's Ataturk Airport to welcome Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan on his return from Davos early on Friday.

Erdogan had stormed out of an angry debate on the Gaza war with Israel's President Shimon Peres at the Davos forum on Thursday. Erdogan said his reaction targeted the moderator who, he said, did not give him floor to speak.

Turkey harshly criticized Israel over its Gaza operation which left more than 1,300 people killed.

People chanted slogans and carried banners read as "The Leader of the World", "Turkey is proud of you," in a bid to extent support to Erdogan's reaction. The crowd carried Turkish and Palestinian flags.

Erdogan's plane has landed in Istanbul Ataturk Airport. He addressed the crowd and held a press conference after his arrival.

Istanbul Mayor, Kadir Topbas from Erdogan's Islamist-rooted Justice and Development Party (AKP), arrived in the airport to extent his backing to the prime minister.

The road in front of Erdogan's residence in Istanbul was covered with red carnations.

The Istanbul Municipality had extended the operation hours of underground until 3.00 a.m. and the line to the airport is free for the passengers.

<http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/domestic/10888239.asp?gid=244>

[Sari Galin]

Erdogan's reaction unlikely to have direct impact on Turkey-Israel ties

ANKARA - The impacts of Turkish Prime Minister's reaction to leave the stage during the Gaza session in Davos with Israeli president are unlikely have immediate impact on Turkish-Israeli relations but it is expected to have indirect effects.

Tayyip Erdogan's reaction sent shockwaves in the Turkish foreign ministry. But it is unlikely to reduce the level of diplomatic relations between Turkey and Israel to the extent of recalling the ambassador in Tel Aviv, diplomatic sources said.

The phone conversation between Erdogan and Israeli President Shimon Peres is another sign that the mutual relations will not be affected by the incident, sources added.

On the other hand, sources warn that the incident might have indirect impacts on the issues that interest Turkey. Here are the major issues that might be effected by the incident, according to diplomatic sources:

1. The Jewish lobby in the U.S. might withdraw its years-long efforts to prevent the U.S. President to use the word "genocide" in his message regarding the 1915 incidents.

2. A possible attempt in the U.S. Congress to recognize the 1915 incidents as "Armenian genocide" will pass easily as the Jewish lobby withdraws its support to Turkey's arguments.

3. Israel could raise its voice in the argument that compares its struggle with Hamas to Turkey's fight against the terror organization PKK. The Jewish lobby might withdraw its support to Turkey in its struggle with PKK in Europe as well as the U.S.

4. This incident might have a negative impact on Turkey-Armenia relations. The Armenian diaspora could garner the support of the Jewish lobby.

5. This might end Turkey's "mediation" efforts in the world especially in the Middle East.

6. The Davos crisis might harm Turkey's image of a "neutral country" in the UN Security Council.

<http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/domestic/10887694.asp?scr=1>

[kaivaz]

Thousands welcome Turkish PM in Istanbul on his return from Davos

[Sari Galin]

Israel, Turkey and the politics of genocide

GERALD CAPLAN

Globe and Mail

President Obama — I love saying those words — has momentarily united the world. Almost. Among the exceptions, though barely noticed by the mainstream media, is the estrangement of Turkey and Israel, previously staunch allies in the turbulent Middle East.

At first blush, this alliance may seem counterintuitive, but in fact it makes good strategic sense for both countries. Israel gets a warm working relationship with one of the largest Muslim countries in the world, while enriching Israel's all-important industrial-military complex. Less than two months ago, for instance, came the news of a deal worth $140-million to Israeli firms to upgrade Turkey's air force. In the hard-boiled, realpolitik terms that determine Israel's strategies, it's a no-brainer. Almost.

In return, Turkey gets military, economic and diplomatic benefits. But it also gets something less tangible, something that matters deeply for reasons hard for outsiders to grasp. As part of the Faustian bargain between the two countries, a succession of Israeli governments of all stripes has adamantly refused to recognize that in 1915 the Turkish government was responsible for launching a genocide against its Armenian minority. Some 1.5-million Armenian women, men and children were successfully killed.

I should make clear that this Israeli position is not held casually. On the contrary. Over the years Israelis, with a few notably courageous exceptions, have actually worked against attempts to safeguard the memory of the Armenian genocide. (The bible on this issue is the excellent book by an Israeli, Yair Auron, called The Banality of Denial: Israel and the Armenian Genocide, 2003.)

For many, this may well be a pretty esoteric sidebar to the world's many crises. But readers need to understand that every Turkish government for almost a century now has passionately denied that a genocide took place at all. Yet the vast majority of disinterested scholars of genocide have publicly affirmed that it was indeed a genocide, one of the small number in the 20th century (with the Holocaust and Rwanda) that have incontestably met the definition set down in the UN's 1948 Genocide Convention.

For Armenians in the Western world, even after 94 years, nothing is more important than persuading other governments to recognize this. For Turkish authorities, even after 94 years, nothing is more important than preventing that recognition. In that pursuit, Israel has been perhaps Turkey's most powerful ally. After all, if the keepers of the memory of the Holocaust don't acknowledge 1915, why should anyone else?

But the Israeli-Turkish bargain goes well beyond Israel. Not only is Israel, of all the unlikely states in the world, a genocide denier, but also many established Jewish organizations in other countries, especially the United States, have followed suit. In the United States, those who argue that denying the Holocaust is psychologically tantamount to a second holocaust have taken the lead in pressuring presidents and Congress against recognizing the reality of 1915. Resolutions calling for recognition are regularly pushed by American-Armenians and their many supporters. Jewish groups regularly lead the opposition. Some believe that members of these groups in fact understand perfectly well the rights and wrongs of the case. But a mindset that backs any and all Israeli government initiatives trumps all else. And successfully. Repeated attempts in Congress to pass this resolution has failed, even though the list of nations that now recognizes the Armenian genocide has grown steadily and, thanks to Stephen Harper, now includes Canada.

It is this rather unseemly, if not unholy, Israeli-Turkish deal that has been among the many victims of the latest Israeli attack on Gaza. Whether the Israelis anticipated it or not, the Turkish government turned against its erstwhile ally with a vengeance, pulling few punches. Turkish Prime Minister Recep Erdogan accused Israel of "perpetrating inhuman actions which would bring it to self-destruction. Allah will sooner or later punish those who transgress the rights of innocents." Mr. Erdogan described Israel's attack on Gaza as "savagery" and a "crime against humanity."

Israel formally described this language as "unacceptable" and certain Israeli media outlets have raised the stakes. The Jerusalem Post editorialized that given Turkey's record of killing tens of thousands of Kurds in northern Iraq, "we're not convinced that Turkey has earned the right to lecture Israelis about human rights." Israel's deputy foreign minister was even more pointed: "Erdogan says that genocide is taking place in Gaza. We [israel] will then recognize the Armenian-related events as genocide." Suddenly, genocide turns into a geopolitical pawn.

It isn't easy to choose a winner in the cynicism stakes here. Here's what one Turkish columnist, Barcin Yinanc, shrewdly wrote: "When April comes, I can imagine the [Turkish] government instructing its Ambassador to Israel to mobilize the Israeli government to stop the Armenian initiatives in the U.S. Congress. I can hear some Israelis telling the Turkish Ambassador to go talk to Hamas to lobby the Congress."

I'm guessing some readers work on the naïve assumption that an event is deemed genocidal based on the facts of the case. Silly you. In the real world, you call it genocide if it bolsters your interests. If it doesn't, it's not. It's actually the same story as with preventing genocide.

What happens now? Candidate Obama twice pledged that he would recognize the Armenian claim of genocide. But so had candidate George W. Bush eight years earlier, until he was elected and faced the Turkish/Jewish lobby. Armenian-Americans and their backers are already pressing Mr. Obama to fulfill his pledge. With the Turkish-Israeli alliance deeply strained, the position of the leading Jewish organizations is very much in question this time. Whatever the outcome, be sure that politics, not genocide, will be the decisive factor.

<http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090123.wcaplan0123/BNStory/International/?page=rss&id=RTGAM.20090123.wcaplan0123>

[Sari Galin]

'Terrorist state' or not, Israel expected to sell drones to Turkey

By Zvi Bar'el

Turkey is expected to receive its first shipment of attack drones from Israel next month, despite the comments by its prime minister during the Gaza offensive that Israel was a terrorist state. Turkey is also expected to receive another shipment of Heron drones from Israel.

According to Turkish sources and reports in the Turkish media, the predominantly Muslim country under Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan is expected to buy drones known as the Harpy. This armed UAV, developed by Elbit and Israel Aerospace Industries, participated in the Gaza offensive and killed Hamas militants.

Turkish Defense Minister Vecdi Gonul was reportedly impressed with the Harpy's performance on his visit to Israel in October. Another factor in Turkey's decision to buy from Israel may be the delay in a final decision by the United States on whether to sell Turkey Predator drones.

Turkish sources say Turkey would rather buy the Predator because of its rich combat experience in Iraq and Afghanistan. One Turkish source said the reports about the deal with Israel were leaked to try to persuade the Americans to cut through the red tape and approve the sale.

Turkey and Israel signed a deal for the supply of Heron drones to the tune of $180 million in 2005, but delays and malfunctions in the cameras mounted on the drones pushed back delivery by more than one year.

In December, Turkey received two Heron UAVs, and another three units are expected to be shipped in February. Despite Erdogan's harsh statements about Israel during the Gaza operation, Israeli sources say the two countries still cooperate on security matters.

"The two countries are connected by their defense needs," one Israeli source said. "The Turkish defense establishment is behaving as though there were no diplomatic crisis, and the diplomats are behaving as though there were no military cooperation."

<http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1060116.html>

[Злодиюка]

что то мне подсказывает, что ора брать за жаюры еврейские организации америки

мне почему то кажется, что это они через своих протеже внесут в конгресс резолюцию по геноциду

[Гость Funky]

что то мне подсказывает, что ора брать за жаюры еврейские организации америки

мне почему то кажется, что это они через своих протеже внесут в конгресс резолюцию по геноциду

[Злодиюка]

тогда непонятна логика турок

типо стать национальным героем чтоб потом пойти на попятную и скушать ложку дерьма?

[shmidt]

.на этот раз дермо сожрал Израиль....

..прошла новостная строка: "Перес попросил прошенья у эрдогана"...

.такие вот лаxмаджу...

[Sari Galin]

У исламистов в Турции идет бой со светско-военно-dönme истеблишментом.

Военные заинтересованы в интеграции с Европой поэтому все это время и не делали резких телодвижений в отношении Эрдогана, Гюль-Гюля и Ко.

Для них проводить сейчас очередной переворот и вешать этих гагашов на дулах танков не совсем к сезону.

В свою очередь исламисты аппелируют к турецкому обывателю что, дескать, светско-военный истеблишмент является подстилками сионизма.